rajeev_74
07-05 11:09 AM
Hope this helps...
Answer me this. God forbid but if you have a cancer and your brother has a malaria and you have just one doctor to treat. Would you ask doctor to treat you first since you have a bigger issue than your brother? No, right.
Dude, we all are brothers in this mess and everyone deserves to be treated fairly. I agree that core should work to eliminate BEC problem as well as any other opportunity to get any other immediate relief but core has limited resources, very limited funding plus and core needs to work on areas which fixes maximum number of lives here.
There are around 40000 people stuck in BEC and if 20% of those can join core and contribute, I'm sure that is enough number to allocate resources accordingly. But somehow people has got the wrong idea that IV is not for people stuck in BEC. I've seen similar posts in immigrationportal.com as well.
Now if IV will work for people who were eligible to file in July or even for people who just filed on Jul 2nd, i'm sure people will come and say that IV is for July 2nd people only. But that is not the case. Any issues/bill/ammendment which can bring some immediate relief should be worked along with our core issues which is retrogression. Once you are out of BEC (I hope you do asap as several of my friends stuck there), I'm sure your main issue will be retrogression and not BEC even if there are other people stuck there.
So lets not divide these communities any more, work together towards common cause that can bring some relief to our brother, sisters and ourselves. We all be benefitted if we all support each other.
Hope you understand.
Thanks
Answer me this. God forbid but if you have a cancer and your brother has a malaria and you have just one doctor to treat. Would you ask doctor to treat you first since you have a bigger issue than your brother? No, right.
Dude, we all are brothers in this mess and everyone deserves to be treated fairly. I agree that core should work to eliminate BEC problem as well as any other opportunity to get any other immediate relief but core has limited resources, very limited funding plus and core needs to work on areas which fixes maximum number of lives here.
There are around 40000 people stuck in BEC and if 20% of those can join core and contribute, I'm sure that is enough number to allocate resources accordingly. But somehow people has got the wrong idea that IV is not for people stuck in BEC. I've seen similar posts in immigrationportal.com as well.
Now if IV will work for people who were eligible to file in July or even for people who just filed on Jul 2nd, i'm sure people will come and say that IV is for July 2nd people only. But that is not the case. Any issues/bill/ammendment which can bring some immediate relief should be worked along with our core issues which is retrogression. Once you are out of BEC (I hope you do asap as several of my friends stuck there), I'm sure your main issue will be retrogression and not BEC even if there are other people stuck there.
So lets not divide these communities any more, work together towards common cause that can bring some relief to our brother, sisters and ourselves. We all be benefitted if we all support each other.
Hope you understand.
Thanks
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saatiish
07-13 10:02 AM
Here is the source ....
http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/Immigrant%20Visa%20Control%20System_operation%20of .pdf
Alternatively go to --> Visa Bulletin (http://travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_1360.html)
Click "Operation of the Numerical Control Process "
http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/Immigrant%20Visa%20Control%20System_operation%20of .pdf
Alternatively go to --> Visa Bulletin (http://travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_1360.html)
Click "Operation of the Numerical Control Process "
Macaca
01-18 08:15 AM
We sent out a newsletter last night and out of 8400 emails, we have nearly 250 bounced back.
Emails like a@abc.com are obviously bogus emails.
See, I can understand the reason for that, you dont want spam. But we send out newsletter less than 2-3 times a month. And we dont sell information.
Send them PM and track them when they are logged.
IV newsletter is NOT spam. It is VERY good cause for the recipient. You have to be more aggressive.
Emails like a@abc.com are obviously bogus emails.
See, I can understand the reason for that, you dont want spam. But we send out newsletter less than 2-3 times a month. And we dont sell information.
Send them PM and track them when they are logged.
IV newsletter is NOT spam. It is VERY good cause for the recipient. You have to be more aggressive.
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gjoe
09-17 10:44 PM
If you have lots of money in the US you may be at risk of losing atleast some part of it. I think buying gold or buying property at a bargain price would be a safe bet. Don't let too much money in the banks. FDIC insurance covers upto $100K for an individual acct.
Some analysts say that approximately 150 banks or investment firms are expected to fall within the next 15 months. There is a high chance for FDIC to go bankrupt. But if that doesn't happen currency value of the USD might sink.
Save your savings now or never
Greenspan one of the architects of this mess says, this is once in a century event.
Greedy politicians are saying, this is because of the greed in wall street but not the people.
I485 applicants say, show me the green (money)
Some analysts say that approximately 150 banks or investment firms are expected to fall within the next 15 months. There is a high chance for FDIC to go bankrupt. But if that doesn't happen currency value of the USD might sink.
Save your savings now or never
Greenspan one of the architects of this mess says, this is once in a century event.
Greedy politicians are saying, this is because of the greed in wall street but not the people.
I485 applicants say, show me the green (money)
more...
Rajeev
06-10 04:06 PM
Done
kishdam
03-14 10:15 AM
Can we as IV community do something about this? ie communicate this to USCIS and have them clarify this with a memo and FAQ?
Yes it would be great if IV core can take up this matter with USCIS - please dont wait on administrative reforms to happen - the whole package might take time. But most of us - July07 filers - will be looking at EAD renewals soon and if USCIS delays the processing many of us would be in soup.
It would be great if USCIS clarifies on interim EAD and what the applicant can do if a EAD application remain in pending status.
chandu - can you please bring this up with core (I will try to get it visibility in my state chapter). Thanks.
Yes it would be great if IV core can take up this matter with USCIS - please dont wait on administrative reforms to happen - the whole package might take time. But most of us - July07 filers - will be looking at EAD renewals soon and if USCIS delays the processing many of us would be in soup.
It would be great if USCIS clarifies on interim EAD and what the applicant can do if a EAD application remain in pending status.
chandu - can you please bring this up with core (I will try to get it visibility in my state chapter). Thanks.
more...
Jaime
09-12 01:24 AM
You will have to wait for decades more, unless we all go to Washington and seize the change! Truth is on our side!!!! LET'S ALL GO!!!!! THIS IS THE TIME WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR SO LONG!!!
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yabadaba
02-21 03:46 PM
pitha...while i bear the frustration of the doors slamming on my face in october 2005 (eb2 was current prior to that) for the sheer fact that i had an incompetent attorney during the initial days when my LC process started.....i would not go far as saying that the porters have "cheated" the system.
The law via Chintakuntla provided that a person with a bachelors degree and 5 years experience is equal to an advanced degree holder.
All the porters are doing is following the law. Its frustrating to people like you and me, but its their right. If i was in their position and the law allowed me to take advantage of a provision of this nature, I would gladly take it.
The law via Chintakuntla provided that a person with a bachelors degree and 5 years experience is equal to an advanced degree holder.
All the porters are doing is following the law. Its frustrating to people like you and me, but its their right. If i was in their position and the law allowed me to take advantage of a provision of this nature, I would gladly take it.
more...
manishcp
09-26 10:00 AM
All IV memeber show your support.
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santosh08872
03-17 04:29 PM
Mine is EB3, 17th June 2002
more...
nixstor
10-16 05:59 PM
I personally think there is a possible ambiguity in the request (especially since we are dealing with a government agency). So we should probably bullet point the data we need at least and if people don't think there is any harm in putting in a table for the format of data needed that will make things very clear. I agree with you that breakdown of quarter/month is probably not needed and might actually hurt our chances of getting the answer within reasonable amount of time.
Hear ya. Even though its repetitive,for the sake of clarity and to avoid ambiguity/frivolous answer, I have updated the document in google docs and the attachment by one of our other member prabhu.
Thanks for your feedback.
Hear ya. Even though its repetitive,for the sake of clarity and to avoid ambiguity/frivolous answer, I have updated the document in google docs and the attachment by one of our other member prabhu.
Thanks for your feedback.
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singhsa3
03-03 05:09 PM
Folks,
Please help me in refining the message: I plan to send to some major media.
*****************************
Dear Sir/Madam,
We are an association of highly skilled immigrants, waiting for our permanent residency status. There are approximately one million such people in this situation.
Before we proceed to make our point, we would like you to consider the following facts regarding ourselves:
• Average age: 30-35 years
• Average years of stay in the USA (all legally): 7 years
• Average legal status in the USA: Final stage of the green card (called I-485 stage) and posses employment authorization document (EAD), renewable every year, indefinitely till one gets his green card.
• Average Salary: $75K+
• Average net worth: 100K-400K (mostly liquid)
• Average occupations: Information technology, Doctors and Financial Analysts
• Average education level: At least undergraduate
• Average credit history: Excellent
Note: If needed, we can cite the source of the information, which is from the government itself.
As mentioned earlier, we are in the final stage of our green card process and at this stage there are very few rejections (<1%). It means that we would eventually get our green cards but it may take several years. Please note that the final stage (called I-485 stage) is the stage, where the applicant has already been found eligible for immigrant visas (aka green cards). Since government can issue only limited number of such visas in a year, the wait becomes long. Please also note that after applying for I-485, people can get their EAD enabling them to work for any employer. The EAD has to be renewed every year and most of us have their EADs
Even though the chances of the rejection is very low but most people, out of fear, have been postponing any major investment decisions, like buying a house or a new car, in other words, living conservatively. In addition, due to the turmoil in the market, several of us, in spite of our excellent credit history, income and high liquid net worth may not qualify for loans as EAD is valid for only one year.
Our organization has been urging the government to fix the green card process or at the very least relax the hassles of the yearly renewal ordeal for EADs. Either of these things will bring certainty in our life and prompt some of us to take some big decisions.
We are writing to you with a hope that our situation will be highlighted and our intellectual and financial potential contribution to this country is appreciated. Please let know if you are interested discussing the matter further and how we can help each other.
We are conducting a small poll on one of the websites used for organizing ourselves. Almost 60% of the respondents are postponing the decision because of the situation they are in. The poll can be found at http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17660
Yours truly,
Please help me in refining the message: I plan to send to some major media.
*****************************
Dear Sir/Madam,
We are an association of highly skilled immigrants, waiting for our permanent residency status. There are approximately one million such people in this situation.
Before we proceed to make our point, we would like you to consider the following facts regarding ourselves:
• Average age: 30-35 years
• Average years of stay in the USA (all legally): 7 years
• Average legal status in the USA: Final stage of the green card (called I-485 stage) and posses employment authorization document (EAD), renewable every year, indefinitely till one gets his green card.
• Average Salary: $75K+
• Average net worth: 100K-400K (mostly liquid)
• Average occupations: Information technology, Doctors and Financial Analysts
• Average education level: At least undergraduate
• Average credit history: Excellent
Note: If needed, we can cite the source of the information, which is from the government itself.
As mentioned earlier, we are in the final stage of our green card process and at this stage there are very few rejections (<1%). It means that we would eventually get our green cards but it may take several years. Please note that the final stage (called I-485 stage) is the stage, where the applicant has already been found eligible for immigrant visas (aka green cards). Since government can issue only limited number of such visas in a year, the wait becomes long. Please also note that after applying for I-485, people can get their EAD enabling them to work for any employer. The EAD has to be renewed every year and most of us have their EADs
Even though the chances of the rejection is very low but most people, out of fear, have been postponing any major investment decisions, like buying a house or a new car, in other words, living conservatively. In addition, due to the turmoil in the market, several of us, in spite of our excellent credit history, income and high liquid net worth may not qualify for loans as EAD is valid for only one year.
Our organization has been urging the government to fix the green card process or at the very least relax the hassles of the yearly renewal ordeal for EADs. Either of these things will bring certainty in our life and prompt some of us to take some big decisions.
We are writing to you with a hope that our situation will be highlighted and our intellectual and financial potential contribution to this country is appreciated. Please let know if you are interested discussing the matter further and how we can help each other.
We are conducting a small poll on one of the websites used for organizing ourselves. Almost 60% of the respondents are postponing the decision because of the situation they are in. The poll can be found at http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17660
Yours truly,
more...
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delax
07-13 09:49 AM
go figure..u jacko.. this forum is not give publicty to lawyers.
pls close this thread
Appreciate your comment - :) A healthy debate is beyond your reach and the ability to appreciate another view point seems to be completely missing. The last time I checked a forum is precisely for that - I am not defending or promoting anybody - Please - lets stick to Gandhian principles when we deal with each other not just with USCIS :)
pls close this thread
Appreciate your comment - :) A healthy debate is beyond your reach and the ability to appreciate another view point seems to be completely missing. The last time I checked a forum is precisely for that - I am not defending or promoting anybody - Please - lets stick to Gandhian principles when we deal with each other not just with USCIS :)
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chanduv23
04-01 09:13 AM
How come these people do not get caught during H-1 approval process or during visa stamping at consulate or maybe later during GC process?
[QUOTE=chanduv23]Thats a new trend. They go to colleges and meet a group of Indian students who are about to graduate and take them out of drinks and dinner and give a presentation about their company. Then when these students come into OPT status, they are all given food + guest house accomodation. Then they are put under intense training for 2 to 3 months and made to do some mockup projects. Then their resumes are massaged with 4 to 5 years of experience ie experience from date they graduated in the under graduation and their MS education is stripped off on their resumes.
As they have Master's degrees, they go to Mexico or Canada for stamping. Thier h1b petitions are filed based on their BS/MS degrees and project works etc. and if any gaps in education, they are filled by experience. As the come under the Master's Cap, the cap lasts longer. The massaging of resumes occurs when employer sends resumes to clients and these resumes are different from what they file for h1b.
When I was trying to reqruit a junior programmer position in my company, I found it very difficult to find the right person. All these people seemed like they had fake experience, tons and tons of resumes from Desi consulting companies , these people are well trained in answering interviews and can also confuse you during the interview.
With this growing trend, the market seems to be going a bit slow for corp to corp h1b consultants and a lot of people seem to be in this category and hiring managers are having a tough time to ascertsain the validity of the candidates.
It is disheartening that this kind of activity has become extremely normal and that people are already noticing it and it does not help solve our purpose and affects those genuine job seekers and genuine hiring managers.
There is more to this. There are consulting companies like visu consultants in India that have ties with all the low grade US universities trying to fill up their grad positions with those aspiring foreign students who can pay fee upto $6000 per semester and you see hoards of people with below average or no GRE scores (GRE will be waived for some universities) filling these positions and do odd jobs inbetween college hours to pay for their next semester and these are the people who actually take loans in their country to pay the high fee, these are the same people who join consulting companies and are hungry to get into jobs by hook or crook (resume massaging) so they they can pay off their debts.
So what is happening is a rippling effect. These days a lot of good H1bs or F1s are not coming here in big numbers because of lack of funding in research or good promising jobs in home countries. People coming through education consulting and moving to jobs through consulting companies has been on rise because of this trend
[QUOTE=chanduv23]Thats a new trend. They go to colleges and meet a group of Indian students who are about to graduate and take them out of drinks and dinner and give a presentation about their company. Then when these students come into OPT status, they are all given food + guest house accomodation. Then they are put under intense training for 2 to 3 months and made to do some mockup projects. Then their resumes are massaged with 4 to 5 years of experience ie experience from date they graduated in the under graduation and their MS education is stripped off on their resumes.
As they have Master's degrees, they go to Mexico or Canada for stamping. Thier h1b petitions are filed based on their BS/MS degrees and project works etc. and if any gaps in education, they are filled by experience. As the come under the Master's Cap, the cap lasts longer. The massaging of resumes occurs when employer sends resumes to clients and these resumes are different from what they file for h1b.
When I was trying to reqruit a junior programmer position in my company, I found it very difficult to find the right person. All these people seemed like they had fake experience, tons and tons of resumes from Desi consulting companies , these people are well trained in answering interviews and can also confuse you during the interview.
With this growing trend, the market seems to be going a bit slow for corp to corp h1b consultants and a lot of people seem to be in this category and hiring managers are having a tough time to ascertsain the validity of the candidates.
It is disheartening that this kind of activity has become extremely normal and that people are already noticing it and it does not help solve our purpose and affects those genuine job seekers and genuine hiring managers.
There is more to this. There are consulting companies like visu consultants in India that have ties with all the low grade US universities trying to fill up their grad positions with those aspiring foreign students who can pay fee upto $6000 per semester and you see hoards of people with below average or no GRE scores (GRE will be waived for some universities) filling these positions and do odd jobs inbetween college hours to pay for their next semester and these are the people who actually take loans in their country to pay the high fee, these are the same people who join consulting companies and are hungry to get into jobs by hook or crook (resume massaging) so they they can pay off their debts.
So what is happening is a rippling effect. These days a lot of good H1bs or F1s are not coming here in big numbers because of lack of funding in research or good promising jobs in home countries. People coming through education consulting and moving to jobs through consulting companies has been on rise because of this trend
more...
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Hassan11
07-17 11:04 AM
Numbers USA changed their web fax from H-1 are tax exempt to this (see below):
Dear [This fax will go to Your U.S. Senators and U.S. Representative ]
I oppose any increase in the annual H-1B visa cap, including those in the SKIL Act. I am counting on you to oppose it.
Here are just a few reasons why I hope you will oppose the SKIL Act:
(1) The six-year visas allow foreign workers to bring in their families, and guarantee thousands of anchor babies.
(2) The H-1B program does not require most employers to give hiring priority to qualified U.S. citizens and permanent residents. If the employer is also sponsoring the foreign worker for a green card, there is such a requirement, but again loopholes render the rule meaningless. As prominent immigration attorney Joel Stewart has said, "Employers who favor aliens have an arsenal of legal means to reject all U.S. workers who apply."
(3) H-1Bs can leave the job they came to fill and seek other jobs, not necessarily in the "hard to fill" category.
(4) Most H-1Bs are of a "protected" ethnic group, so H-1Bs have an affirmative action preference when competing with Americans for the same jobs.
The result of the SKIL Act would be to further depress the wages of Americans working in high-tech and scientific fields and to cause additional job displacement for those workers.
Sincerely, [Your Name Will Appear Here]
see link http://www.numbersusa.com/faxcenter?action=preview&ID=8306
Dear [This fax will go to Your U.S. Senators and U.S. Representative ]
I oppose any increase in the annual H-1B visa cap, including those in the SKIL Act. I am counting on you to oppose it.
Here are just a few reasons why I hope you will oppose the SKIL Act:
(1) The six-year visas allow foreign workers to bring in their families, and guarantee thousands of anchor babies.
(2) The H-1B program does not require most employers to give hiring priority to qualified U.S. citizens and permanent residents. If the employer is also sponsoring the foreign worker for a green card, there is such a requirement, but again loopholes render the rule meaningless. As prominent immigration attorney Joel Stewart has said, "Employers who favor aliens have an arsenal of legal means to reject all U.S. workers who apply."
(3) H-1Bs can leave the job they came to fill and seek other jobs, not necessarily in the "hard to fill" category.
(4) Most H-1Bs are of a "protected" ethnic group, so H-1Bs have an affirmative action preference when competing with Americans for the same jobs.
The result of the SKIL Act would be to further depress the wages of Americans working in high-tech and scientific fields and to cause additional job displacement for those workers.
Sincerely, [Your Name Will Appear Here]
see link http://www.numbersusa.com/faxcenter?action=preview&ID=8306
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Legal
07-04 09:10 PM
[QUOTE=nixstor]Excellent analysis but it does have flaws
I am sure you might have read this from murthy's website (http://www.murthy.com/news/n_dosebn.html) or not, but DOS/CA/VO officials shared this piece with them. As per the above article, final quarter quota should not open until Jul 2nd. I understand that agencies can implement and interpret certain stuff, but you cannot interpret and implement one thing on Jun 13th and another on Jul 2nd. If its written into law, that the quarterly allocation is a must, USCIS is in violation and DOS/CA/VO as well for not policing them of visa number usage.
"Essentially, the numbers are spread out during the first three quarters and whatever is left is available during the last quarter"
On reading the Murthy article it appears that the biggest mistake USCIS committed was using up the visa numbers before the 4th qtr began on 7/2/07.
USCIS did it other way around...desparately rushed to use up the numbers before the 4th qtr began....only explanation is to avoid doing additional paperwork for the July filers...
I am sure you might have read this from murthy's website (http://www.murthy.com/news/n_dosebn.html) or not, but DOS/CA/VO officials shared this piece with them. As per the above article, final quarter quota should not open until Jul 2nd. I understand that agencies can implement and interpret certain stuff, but you cannot interpret and implement one thing on Jun 13th and another on Jul 2nd. If its written into law, that the quarterly allocation is a must, USCIS is in violation and DOS/CA/VO as well for not policing them of visa number usage.
"Essentially, the numbers are spread out during the first three quarters and whatever is left is available during the last quarter"
On reading the Murthy article it appears that the biggest mistake USCIS committed was using up the visa numbers before the 4th qtr began on 7/2/07.
USCIS did it other way around...desparately rushed to use up the numbers before the 4th qtr began....only explanation is to avoid doing additional paperwork for the July filers...
more...
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tomchi007
02-21 05:12 PM
Pardon my ignorance and pls help me understand, how does PD impact the mass 485 applications sent July/August 2007?
I thought the PD is only relevant for being able to apply for 485 and didnt matter if your 485 application had been received. Am I wrong?
I thought the PD is only relevant for being able to apply for 485 and didnt matter if your 485 application had been received. Am I wrong?
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pv2715
07-13 09:13 AM
March 1 is NOT included.......See attachment Page 1 paragraph 5....
The cut-off date is the priority date of the first documentarily qualified applicant who could not be accommodated for a visa number.
Hopefully next round of spillover buddy....hang in there...:-)
Thanks...Excerpt from the same document
Only persons with a priority date earlier than a cut-off date are entitled to allotment of a visa number. The cut-off dates are the 1st, 8th, 15th, and 22nd of a month, since VO groups demand for numbers under these dates. (Priority dates of the first through seventh of a month are grouped under the 1st, the eighth through the fourteenth under the 8th, etc.)
The cut-off date is the priority date of the first documentarily qualified applicant who could not be accommodated for a visa number.
Hopefully next round of spillover buddy....hang in there...:-)
Thanks...Excerpt from the same document
Only persons with a priority date earlier than a cut-off date are entitled to allotment of a visa number. The cut-off dates are the 1st, 8th, 15th, and 22nd of a month, since VO groups demand for numbers under these dates. (Priority dates of the first through seventh of a month are grouped under the 1st, the eighth through the fourteenth under the 8th, etc.)
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GreenMe
06-10 04:27 PM
Done and sent out to 10 other friends.
Buran
02-14 12:30 AM
Dear friends,
I am appalled and disgusted by the mudslinging going on between ROW and India-born applicants. .....
1) Per country quotas in EB immigration cause infighting
I understand your frustration, but the rules are the same for everybody, and if India sends more immigrants to the US then any other country, that\\\'s not the US Government\'s fault.
If there were not per country limits, Indians would consume all those EB visas visas leaving no chance to the applicants from other countries to immigrate to the US legally.
I am appalled and disgusted by the mudslinging going on between ROW and India-born applicants. .....
1) Per country quotas in EB immigration cause infighting
I understand your frustration, but the rules are the same for everybody, and if India sends more immigrants to the US then any other country, that\\\'s not the US Government\'s fault.
If there were not per country limits, Indians would consume all those EB visas visas leaving no chance to the applicants from other countries to immigrate to the US legally.
eb3_nepa
02-13 01:01 PM
Logicliffe i agree with you.
I think the Aim of IV should be to make the ENTIRE process of the GC quick and painless and abt 2.5 to 3 years start to finish.
Guys we have to fight the root cause and not the individual symptoms. United we stand. The problem is Backlogs at various stages. We should strive for removing the root cause of backlogs. A united voice which says, "Give us our Green Cards in abt 3 years". If we fight for each individual thing, we will be like many small streams each figthing for it's own little cause. So far we have seen the following SUB issues:
1) Spouses not being able to work
2) Children aging out
3) FBI/Name check clearance.
Now if we each start fighting for the specific cause, the movement will be scattered. Instead what we are trying to do is focuss on eliminating ALL problems.
Guys i ask everyone on here to step forward and Signup for the Rally we are trying to hold In DC. We need stronger numbers on that rally if we are to be successful.
I think the Aim of IV should be to make the ENTIRE process of the GC quick and painless and abt 2.5 to 3 years start to finish.
Guys we have to fight the root cause and not the individual symptoms. United we stand. The problem is Backlogs at various stages. We should strive for removing the root cause of backlogs. A united voice which says, "Give us our Green Cards in abt 3 years". If we fight for each individual thing, we will be like many small streams each figthing for it's own little cause. So far we have seen the following SUB issues:
1) Spouses not being able to work
2) Children aging out
3) FBI/Name check clearance.
Now if we each start fighting for the specific cause, the movement will be scattered. Instead what we are trying to do is focuss on eliminating ALL problems.
Guys i ask everyone on here to step forward and Signup for the Rally we are trying to hold In DC. We need stronger numbers on that rally if we are to be successful.